Monday, September 22, 2008

Holy Ghost excommunicates woman

Holy Ghost excommunicates woman

By G.E. LAWRENCE, The Phoenix correspondent



The difficulty began on April 15.

It was on that evening that the proposal for an 81-unit, $10 million HUD-funded elderly housing project at Bridge and Starr Streets was presented to Borough Council from Father James Evans and the Church Housing Corporation of Phoenixville.

The proposal was predicated on the sale of just under two acres of the 22 on which is situated Holy Ghost Church and its Social Center.

The evening of April 15 was also when some members of Holy Ghost Church got themselves in trouble. Not with public authorities, but with spiritual ones. Because they opposed the sale, and said so to Council.

They had said so in a congregational meeting on March 30, though by a 43-38 majority vote of the 226-member congregation the sale was approved.

But they said so also in Council chambers April 15. Helen Langner said so. Susan Flavin, then a member of the parish Board, said so. Joan Detweiler, another Board member, said so. They also raised questions about that the circumstances under which the congregational vote had been taken.

They all said so with such effect that Evans, who had earlier been relying on "[the church's] congregational method, their system which is that the majority makes the decision," withdrew the proposal from Council's consideration. "I simply do not want to be a part of contributing to that kind of division of a church's life in this way," he said.

But the project went back on the table the following week. "The leadership of the Church said to me that my decision had not respected the strong support of the majority in that vote," Evans reported later, in an interview July 31. The proposed sale would move ahead.

That had no bearing, however, on what happened to those in Holy Ghost Church who opposed the sale and were present at Council's April 15 meeting.

They received on May 13 a letter from Metropolitan Nicholas, head of the American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese of the U.S.A., Holy Ghost's ruling judicatory.

"The issue involves your participation in a recent session of Phoenixville Borough Council, the Metropolitan wrote, "[where] your dissenting opinion brought an internal church matter with which you disagree into the public eye. At the very least, this provided an unfavorable, unnecessary image of internal dissent to the community.

"This posturing to reverse a [church] decision is unacceptable," read the letter. "For these reasons, this Office takes offense at your activity [I]f this type of activity continues, further action may be necessary."

In May, Board member Flavin had been suspended. In June, two other Board members had resigned. Another resigned in August.

On June 10, an agreement of sale was signed by both Holy Ghost Church and the Church Housing Corporation for $500,000, according to a Church summary of events. The Church intends to use the proceeds to build a new Social Center, a facility included on Evans's project sketch plan.

But there was a hitch: the Holy Ghost American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Church of the Eastern Rite, as a legal entity, may not hold title to the property its Board wants to sell. It was a separate legal entity, The Saint Nicholas Brotherhood of Phoenixville, that purchased the property from members of the Reeves family for $31,500 on December 7, 1938, according to the property deed. The Brotherhood then leased the property to the Church.

The Church's constitution and by-laws indicate that "[a]ll real property of the parish, including the Church proper, house, lots and other real estate is the property of the St. Nicholas Brotherhood. All properties are listed and registered in the name of St. Nicholas Brotherhood and administered by the Church Board."

The Brotherhood, however, again according to the constitution and by-laws, "is comprised of the members in good standing" of the Church.

So the Church Board, representing one legal entity, filed suit August 9 against the Brotherhood as another. In PA Civil Action No. 08-08049, the Court of Common Pleas of Chester County has been asked to declare that the Church "be authorized and empowered by the Court to be the only entity to act on behalf of the St. Nicholas Brotherhood."

Reached for comment last week, Holy Ghost pastor Very Reverend Protopresbyter John Fedornock responded, "I have nothing to say. I can't give out information. The judge has not set up a hearing date. Everything [on the project] is at a complete standstill."

"I am unable to say anything," said Diocesan Chancellor Very Rev. Protopresbyter Frank P. Miloro, on Friday, from his offices in Johnstown. "This is a matter internal to the parish, and it would be inappropriate for me to make any statement."

But also last week, what "further action" the Metropolitan might take was made clear to Nancy Dempsey. She is a member of the parish who was present at that April 15 meeting, though she did not speak.

By letter of September 3, Dempsey was excommunicated. Fedornock read out the letter to the Holy Ghost congregation, absent Dempsey, at worship yesterday.

"You have been identified as a participant in a dissenting group waging a malicious campaign of lies and innuendos," read the letter. "You have refused conformity to the discipline of the Church" and "organized a society which is plotting against [it]."

"Others who have been involved in disruptive activities with you," the Metropolitan concluded, "must desist immediately. Should they not, a like pronouncement will be made against them."

Dempsey can no longer receive sacraments at Holy Ghost Church, nor receive a church burial. "I don't know how I can be punished so severely," she said Sunday. "I've just been trying to honor the founders' lease, and preserve the property."


Karen said...

Before the comments commence, I want to remind everyone to think before they post.

Thank you.

Karen said...

Readers of this blog are familiar with the history of the attempt to sell a portion of Holy Ghost Church property.

If questions still exist, please post them and I'm certain someone will respond if I am unavailable.

As a direct descendant of the founding families of Holy Ghost Church, as well as a concerned friend of Mrs. Dempsey and many other members of Holy Ghost Church, I am dismayed and horrified by the excommunication and the public knowledge of the same of one of it's faithful members.

In view of the reasons given in the now public letters written by the Metropolitian Nicholas, head of the American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese of the U.S.A., I have a question, however I am under no delusions that I will ever receive an answer.

How is Nancy Dempsey any different from our great-grandparents and other family members who tore themselves asunder from Saint Michael's Church because they so devoutly and desperately believed in their right to THEIR own Church and their right to worship in their manner that they sacrificed their incomes, the sweat of their brow, and years of their lives to FOUND A NEW CHURCH in Holy Ghost Church?

Think about that.

Please pray for Holy Ghost Church, Mrs. Dempsey, all those affected, and each of the Church members as well as for the resolution of the problems in this sad situation.

Anonymous said...

You ask "How is Nancy Dempsey any different from our great-grandparents... who tore themselves asunder from Saint Michael's Church..."
I don't belong to Holy Ghost though I know the history well from the other side.
I have an answer to this one. Mrs Dempsey ISN'T any different from her great grandparents. What is different is that the hierarchy has seemingly become that which they once disagreed with. Ever read "Animal Farm"?

I believe it was dead wrong to make a public example of this woman by reading her letter to the congregation. This tactic was a low ball attempt to threaten and silence a group who has legitimate concern for the future of their church. I believe this group of so-called dissenters holds the opinion of the majority of Phoenixville residents. I have no doubt in five years this park will look the same as it does today. IMHO this project will never get off the ground.

Anonymous said...

There isn't ANYONE in this town, other than Evans and a few 'leaders' in this church that actually believe this HUD project will ever go through. The majority of Phoenixville is AGAINST this project. Hello! Are they totally blind?

It seems to me it is pride making their leadership act out like this with ridiculous proclamations, excommunication letters, etc. LOLOLOL. Isn't PRIDE one of the seven deadly sins? Greed is another one. So is Lust of Power. Hmmm. Not many left here people. They might want to quit while they are ahead. Doesn't PRIDE goeth BEFORE the fall? LOLOLOL God is not liking the way the shepherds are kicking around the sheep!

Anonymous said...

Incognito here folks

Karen, here's the problem....the church, as you so eloquently claim to have a keen insight on, is NOT THE PEOPLE'S CHURCH. IT is God's church. Christ never preached Church you fool - He preached Kingdom. That's where Mrs. Dempsey misses the entire point. She has been missing the entire point in all of this since day one. she missed the point in the previous administration (pastor) and now has merely an axe to grind with the current one. Our forefathers, hers too I guess, understood that even though we might not like everything that goes on within the church, we are OBEDIENT. OBEDIENT - meaning that we submit our will to the Will of God. We bear his glory not our own. That's what Mrs. Dempsey has no clue about. She thinks it's all about her and it never has. But, since she went and aired the church's laundry out in public, something YOU DO NOT DO because that's just selfish, then she reaps what she sows.

Don't shed any tears and drop all of this. you are merely exacerbating the problem and your dear friend is merely seeking enablers now to help her feel good about herself. She likes the church in Pottstown better - so tell her to go there. But since she is so connected to her forefathers, why doesn't she just cross back over the bridge to St. Michael's and get in touch with her roots?

Anonymous said...

Funny thing is I thought the church was supposed to be "inclusive". Instead they seem to "exclude" anyone that they deem not worthy. I thought we are taught to love everyone. Even those that wrong us. Another example of actions speaking much louder than words. What a sad group.

Anonymous said...

I feel quite puzzled on how and why anyone is accusing Ms Dempsey of speaking out. If the poster of Incognito was honestly updated, he'd know that his family spoke out, his fellow parishioners whom he had to his wedding spoke out but Dempsey merely stated "Son of a B)(&^" after the vote and has been threatened, refused communion and went to confession multiple times to Fedornock since which he forgets based on what he told my aunt a baking lady. Why a priest discusses other people's confessions or posts on blogs is a darn shame

Anonymous said...


Someone once said, "The road to hell is paved with the skulls and bones of priests, and erring bishops are its lamp posts" or something to that effect.

You so arrogantly air all of Ms. Dempsey�s alleged "dirty laundry" in your post but you tell her she should not air the church�s? Does the church/clergy carry some special exemption, or is it that she has less value than the clergy ? By your logic, the disgusting abuses in the Roman Catholic Church would never have been exposed and eventually addressed. I guess all those destroyed families should have kept their mouths shut, been obedient or just gone to the church in Pottstown (whatever that means).

You condescendingly talk of obedience, but have no words for a priest who breaks a sacred trust and reads the letter of excommunication in public. This is an act that is inexplicable (unless it is meant to silence any other dissenters) and despicable at the same time.

If you are not a member of the clergy, your comments are mis-informed and incomplete. If you are a member of the clergy, I pity your flock.

I know, I know � I will just sit quietly and obediently as Father Fedornock does God�s work by publicly humiliating Ms. Dempsey and announcing her excommunication.

By the way, you�ve spared him from you deep and thoughtful analysis. Care to comment on his behavior ?

Thought not.

Anonymous said...

"Our forefathers, hers too I guess, understood that even though we might not like everything that goes on within the church, we are OBEDIENT..."

Incognito- sorry, but you totally lost me here. If in fact your 'forefathers' were obedient to the Church then there would be no ACROD. You would ALL Be Catholic.The story is well documented. Enlighten me please. If your forefathers were right in dissenting (remember: property ownership issues?)then why is Ms Dempsey wrong? If your forefathers were wrong in dissenting then what does that mean for you and your church? It was formed from dissention? Is that of God?

Has your hierarchy evolved into that which your forefathers fought against? If so then Ms Dempsky is absolutely right to voice her opinion according to your history. Perhaps she has more of a clue than you think?

Remember that Church Militant/Church Triumphant concept? Your forefathers are watching and praying in that large Communion of Saints. I wouldn't count them out just yet as has-beens. What do you think they would be praying for in this case?
I think we will all know when we learn this project is as good as dead-in-the-water.

"But, since she went and aired the church's laundry out in public, something YOU DO NOT DO"

LOLOLOLOL God forbid! Keep those secrets SECRET! Remember the biblical teaching that God brings everything that is in darkness INTO THE LIGHT? There was some shady stuff going on behind closed doors here. Clearly for starters the vote was not fair. What was that about?

Through the ages many things have been done in secret in the name of God. If you want to use the sex scandals as an example, or the financial scandals of a certain Alaskan church as another, you can't deny the need bring these sins to the forefront for the good of the church. Yes. Your church looks public. But guess what? It is your church. It looks bad not because of the reporting. It looks bad because of the actions reported. An excommunication of this person from the top of the heap for dissenting makes this look 100 times worse. Who is causing the scandal here?

Anonymous said...

Well Incognito- where do the people get off selling God's sacred land? As good steward we don't sell what God's for profit, do we? We give it away. So as a church who practices what it preaches in caring for the poor widows and orphans..GIVE IT to HUD.. for free. Hah! THAT won't happen! LOLOLOLOLOLOL

Anonymous said...

Anonymous (not me but the other anonymous)- you are brilliant !

Holy Ghost SHOULD do God's work. They MUST GIVE THIS LAND AWAY to care for the poor and orphans !

Father Evans SHOULD do God's work and donate ALL he has to the cause !

What a wonderful world it would be if this were to happen. Why doesn't Borough Council propose these two men who insist on wearing collars either take them off and declare a profit motive, or wear them proudly as they announce this new partnership in God's name. As a matter of fact, they would not even do it in front of the cameras but with love and humility.

What a wonderful world it would be !

Anonymous said...

Ms. Dempsy is "excluded" in this church b/c of all the problems that she has caused over this piece of land that would be a good opportunity for the church to get a NEW social center...she had a little secret society in this church and she has someone else do her dirty work b/c she's too chicken to speak up for herself!! She shouldn't have gone to the paper either b/c she looks bad and so does Holy Ghost (which is a GREAT orthodox church and shouldn't be looked @ as a BAD church)

Anonymous said...

To Anon 8:46-
I hate to break it to you hon, but Mrs Dempsey does NOT look bad here or in the press. Your church looks bad, Fr Evans looks bad. Your priests and bishops look bad.
No matter how many senior citizens are dragged to the meetings, the truth is that the majority of Phoenixville thinks the idea for a HUD facility at this corner is bad. The best is yet to come. We are heading towards a depression. How much money will be cut from HUD to use elsewhere (bailouts, etc) Honey you can slam her all you want if you need to place blame for the craziness coming out of that proerty, but the fact is this project has a snowballs chance in hell of being completed and you will still look bad. I am thinking you won't be needing a social center after this, but that is just my humble opinion

Anonymous said...

why is everything a conspiracy, lol? you aren't in 'old country' and there is no kgb at work here...

to anon 5:28 am
thanks :)
well, it is the truth isn't it?

Nancy E Dempsey said...

I did not run to the newspaper in order to further humiliate myself on the fact that Father John read an exommunication. I was asked for comment on this very public matter made public by this action.

I have not spoken out about the HUD as it would affect my profession causing a conflict.

I have not formed a sect nor have the power you seem to feel I do over our fellow parishioners.

I have not done anything evil to my beloved church nor have I written any hurtful letters to anyone including Father John Fedornock.

My last calls to Father John were to arrange a Scout Patch session, bless my home and have a memorial service at the shrine all of which resulted in more nasty calls back with messages from him against helping me do this for my family.

What I have done is raise funds for years for the catering of the hall, raise funds for the church van, volunteer to teach, run children programs and help at bazaars but over the past 7 years have been denied this by Father John. I have multiple threats on my home machine from Father John. I have letters and scripture with notes from Father John all trying to chase me away and give up on trying to do what we all started to do in Feb 2002 in raising funds and breaking ground for the New Educational Center. Interestingly enough the many with the plans, forsight and donations for this bldg that would house the Social Center state of the art facility were pushed out at the meeting we were presenting back then. All of this is public record.

Complaints and appeals to the President, Bishop and Dean have been iginroed.

Now, that money has been partially used for maintenance, you are selling sacred ground and the many who are against breaking the lease are called a sect. There is a chance we can survive in this parish if we all get on a more positive plan and healing. This will never happen with those in charge.

I hope the many who insist that others want our property sold, church to go broke are wrong but I fear they are not at this point in time.

God Bless this beautiful church and people. God is the judge and the defamation taking place is not worth going against the law of the Bible as one day those doing wrong and hurtful things will be judged. God is our judge of souls and for what I pray for every day is for my little girl to have a church to return to one day, that is not surrounded by sidewalks and blacktop as we can make this work if we pray for guidance and peace and get a new shephard. The lies of my communion frequency, confession frequency being non existant are not excusable actions of a priest.

I felt the need to post as hiding behind names is not my way regardless of those nasty posters who accuse me of such.
God bless you all and pray for me and my family during this difficult time.

Nancy E. Dempsey, East Coventry, PA

Anonymous said...

Nancy has guts. Sadly, many of us who care and have an opinion have no such guts, and have chosen to drift away from the parish. On the other hand, no effort was expended from the priest or the church board in an effort to bring us "lost sheep" back to the flock. Not a phone call, nothing - we could be dead for all they care.
All I get are letters signed by LO explaining why the church board is right and how we shouldn't listen to the dissenters who have "no right to speak". Maybe they should have sent be a letter before the vote was taken? heh.
When Father Mike left, the Parish began to die ,slowly, and it's not ever coming back, no matter how many acres of land are sold off. You can't cure metastatic lung cancer by chopping off a finger.

Karen said...

Sent anonymously.


My thoughts and prayers go out to all those affected by this situation. From an outside point of view, with due diligence in investigating the facts, it seems that Nancy Dempsey is correct.

And remember, this property belongs to the Saint Nicholas Brotherhood, not Holy Ghost Church. From direct first hand knowledge - a dangerous thing to the HGOC board members and their cronies - the whole pre-approval of the sale and voting procedure was a problem from the start. That is what has caused such controversy. The odds are stacked against the proponents of the sale. More people will be upset if the property sells, than if it doesn't. That speaks volumes in itself.

The statement about the church leaders leaving the wayward members for as good as dead is absolutely true, as I am one of them, who never spoke out against anything the church ever did. Their apathy is now coming back to haunt them. I would appear in court if needed to testify to fight this oppression. I haven't heard anything from any HGOC church board members for many years, until the letter supporting the sale, after the vote! So Nancy Dempsey has nothing to do with this viewpoint. I have formulated my own opinion of this situation based on independent research - as have others. HGOC - your days in Phoenixville could be numbered.

Anonymous said...

As per your last edit, you must have read this no? Public information.

Friday, April 25, 2008
Good thing Deb Johnston gaveled the Planning Commission’s Thursday evening meeting to a close when she did. About the only thing left unheard by that time was the “liar, liar, pants on fire” defense.

Consider this exchange between George Martynick and Father James Evans, in regard to Evans’s participation in discussion and votes in Commission sessions on changes the Downtown Commercial District zoning provisions, when his $10 million HUD-financed elderly housing project was in the works but not yet publicly so.

GM: “You broke the [State] Ethics Act.”

JE: “In what way?”

GM: [to the Chair] “The issue is he voted for the D-COMM District changes. He had a conflict of interest. [To Evans] You had a conflict of interest.”

JE: “I don’t think I did.”

GM: “You gotta be kidding me!”

JE: “We had two votes. There was [in January] the proposal for the extension on the District on the West End. I voted ‘no.’” Then the other [in March] I considered to be about density and side yard setbacks.”

GM: “It was also about building coverage and impervious coverage, and your proposal….”

JE: “The parcel would have required a zoning change….It was totally in an office building district…”

GM: “No! No! NO!...”

DJ: [Chair’s gavel: slam, slam, slam, slam.] “I’ll will get in touch with Council, then we can move on. We’re finished with that subject.”

JE: “Some serious accusations have been made. Personal privilege and I have a right to respond…. [If the Ethics Act applies] why were we not given this? All of should have it. How long has it existed?”

Solicitor Kim Venzie: “…I don’t know the date, but for decades…."

JE: “Then I ask at the same time that you [Johnston] talk to council you talk also about the neighbors group you were part of in relation to the Hospital…”

DJ: “I was not a part of that. I never attended a meeting. On purpose. You can ask Bill….”

JE: “That’s not what the community believes….”

GM: “You can’t claim ignorance [of the law]. It’s like telling a police officer that you didn’t know the red light was there. You’re a public official. You can’t claim ignorance.”

Well, that should give you the flavor of it, though any written report just cannot do justice to the odd shouts, the three – and at one time four – Commission members talking over each other’s sentences, the gavel that rarely, in fact, interrupted anything.

And if you liked this from last night, I should tell you some time what it’s taken at some sessions just to get the minutes passed.

Last evening was new appointee Marcia Eldred’s first. What a welcome.

Posted by
G.E. “Skip” Lawrence

posted by The Phoenix Files at 12:48 PM

Blogger andthetruthshallsetyoufree said...

Are you kidding me? You sit through a meeting and the best that you can REPORT ON is liar, liar pants on fire. Here we go again! (Voice from loudspeaker),'Journalist at the Borough Hall, please!'
April 25, 2008 6:46 PM
Blogger Altoonia F. Pianno said...

Since Mr. Evans is so much in the local news lately, why don't we start examining some of his other real estate in town, starting with Jefferson Place? It is listed in various sites as senior housing, apartments, and housing for the mentally ill.
April 25, 2008 10:15 PM
Blogger Mr. Ellsworth Toohey said...

Perhaps Skip or someone else from the Phoenix can report the facts about what is it Mr. Evans is accused of. Maybe, report on the issue.
April 26, 2008 6:54 AM
Blogger anonymous said...

Hooray for George for having the courage to challenge this guy. Jim Evans, as a Section 8 developer, should never have been appointed to the Planning Commission. He should resign. That very commission's charter is to excersize control over development and having Evans there is like asking the fox to guard the hen house. And for him to pretend to not know that ethics plays a part in the decision process is, may I say.....sinful. Way to go Jim....every time you open your mouth you confirm my opinion of you, which is not most certainly not good.
April 26, 2008 7:30 AM
Blogger Derlwyn Observer said...

Is it too much to ask that The Phoenix report on the issue? Explain the conflict of interest instead of the "personalities" invovled?

Based on what I saw of the Council Meeting of 4/15 on Channel 22, Evans should resign immediately from the Planning Commission. I also find it ludicrious, based on what is posted here by Skip, that a developer of so many years and subject to so many government regulations (HUD is all about regulations!) "didn't know" that he had a ethics violation.

If Evans is truely so clueless about his responsibilities as a public official, then he should resign his public position and go back to doing what he appears to like best -- working the HUD regulations to his own benefit.

We've got two great candidates left for the Planning Commission -- Evans should resign immediately and let one of those two have his seat.
April 26, 2008 8:11 AM
Blogger Dolores Haze said...

Being new in town, I find the local news so titillating...I asked around about "Father Jim" and everyone said the same thing, that for every "good deed" he does, there is something ($$$) in it for him. I don't trust him. And I happen to thing that "liar, liar, pants on fire" is perfectly good reporting It is language we can all understand, even andthetruthshallsetyoufree, who should stay with his alter ego, the chicken man who, if he was more attractive, might be a man I could go for. But,according to my sources, he isn't, so I won't.
April 26, 2008 8:33 AM
Blogger Humbert Humbert said...

I believe that Father Evans should be thanked for the work he does in the community. I have met a number of the people he has worked with on High Street and they all speak highly of him. I am inclined to believe that by publishing the transcript the reporter has provided the most accurate portrayal of what happened. Maybe he should have drawn pictures for some of you.
April 29, 2008 8:15 PM

Anonymous said...

I believe that Father Evans should be thanked...

Yeah...It is truly the work of God.

Anonymous said...

Did Incognito lose his internet connection? I thought some great questions were posed to him by Anon 9/22. I am dying for his answer on church obedience. He seems so knowledgeable and all.

Anonymous said...

In one of the posts someone said:
Ms. Dempsy is "excluded" in this church b/c of all the problems that she has caused...

So what is the difference between a church and a club membership? This sounds more like she was kicked out of a Moose Lodge or something, LOL. Hmmmm. WWJD? I don't think Jesus ever ordered proclamations either. Wasn't that some Middle Ages thing? This is way too weird.

Anonymous said...

I don't think the Moose Lodge gets a tax exemption on 18 acres of prime property.

If it is a club, then the taxman may want to do some catching up...

Anonymous said...

I see mrs. dempsey finally decided to post and sign her name. let's see if her disciples do that same.

seems I agree with those who say this has gotten way out of hand because this is a church problem - and she made it a public problem.

either way, the church suffers regardless if this goes through or not. I hope those that caused this stir are ready to do even more then they claim they do.

Anonymous said...

If it is a club, then the taxman may want to do some catching up...

Well you can't convince me it is a church, LOLOLOL

Personally on a serious note- this thing has to be so dead in the water already. I mean for God's sakes. Is this church government actually still trying to push this? One of the comments I read in the Phoenix basically says the church was totally ripped off with this transaction. If anything is clear that is! Another says the priest actually contacted Evans. Another thanks God these players aren't brain surgeons. Wow. SO DO I, LOLOLOL!

And now we are getting into adultery issues? Hmmmm...does anyone really want to touch on THAT subject? People in Phoenixville have looooooong memories. I'll leave it at that.

Anonymous said...

Nancy Dempsey did not put this sale on the agenda to make it public

She did not read an excommunication letter on a public forum and copy it to many many people, to make it public knowledge to embarrass herself and her family

She did not take a private land agreement to a council meeting or 3rd party for a public sale agreement.

This was all brought to the public by the officers of the church and their two preachers who shook hands on this great deal in order to fund the SS they wanted so very badly.

Get your facts straight you idiots it is all public record including the letters sent out before this lady received her own!

Anonymous said...

"preachers who shook hands on this great deal"

In my opinion, I think one of these knew the other wasn't too saavy. It was a great deal alright.

Also just an opinion- 10 years from now this land will still be vacant.

Anonymous said...

Get your facts straight you idiots it is all public record including the letters sent out before this lady received her own!

I am sure the facts are straight. This whole blame game to me is because they need to deflect away from themselves and their BAD decision making and do that little ethnic group thing- place all the blame on some woman, call her names, call her emotional or a big mouth, polarize the place against her, on and on and on. It is a historical tactic This changes the internal politics, forces people to choose their church over some ex-parishioner. Someone in the newpaper comments wondered why there were no men getting the boot. My answer? There AREN'T any. I can't believe there isn't ONE man willing to stand up against this. Wait. Yes I can. :(

Anonymous said...

RE: I can't believe there isn't ONE man willing to stand up against this. Wait. Yes I can. :(

There my friend, you are wrong. Both myself and other men who have seen the wicked ways of the church council and hierarchy are willing to testify in court and provide sworn testimony as to what we witnessed, when needed. That is why this issue is in the court of law right now.

No excommunication from any church would ever injure people as strong as us. If they think it will they are severely mistaken. What happens when I die is between me and my creator, and not some pre-ordained, rogue pontificates. The ruling on this subject could have long term effects on the HGOC ability to stay on that property. Unless there is a major change of heart on their part within a very short period of time, (Doubtful), I will encourage people to vote to oust them! And the majority of people against this sale are not disciples of N. Dempsey, they are disciples of the truth.

Anonymous said...

"There my friend, you are wrong..."

AMEN! For once I am overjoyed to be wrong! I apologize.
So why is it YOU weren't publicly excommunicated? Did the big tough clerics choose who they thought was the weakest target to make an example of? Another mistake. Cowards.

Anonymous said...

PS: AMEN to this too! Don't back down.

"No excommunication from any church would ever injure people as strong as us. If they think it will they are severely mistaken. What happens when I die is between me and my creator, and not some pre-ordained, rogue pontificates."

Anonymous said...

To Anonymous 9/24 6:04....
Mrs Dempsey has no disciples...I can assure you of that. The large number of supporters to squash this deal are composed of church members and community members alike. They are acting and speaking out as individuals, the exception of course being those ladies who recieved a gag order from their Bishop and have lost their constitutional rights.
Amazing how every statement, letter, or other action taken by someone in support of the effort to save this property has been blamed on Mrs Dempsey. What narrow minded, tunnel vision do we have going on here?
After being made a public example of what happens to you if you rock the boat, why would anyone sign their name. Father John read the letter to the entire Church during a Sunday service. Would the Bishop toss out 50 people???? Betcha he would .....

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

From a fair minded observer;

Whenever comments are posted on a public blog there tend to be a wide spectrum of responses.

Some of these responses are inclusive of strong opinion while others using this medium are just to sound off.

Keep in mind that "Life in Phoenixville" portrays both public and private issues and may rightfully do so.

These issues within HGOC stem from
CHOICES made by church hierarchy to "silence the critics" Whether they are now public is irrelevant.

Look at how the Catholic Church hierarchy silenced the actions, the pain, the humiliation of both the families and parishioners with the Priest Sex Scandal. This internal issue is far from internal any longer.

In that example $$ paid to families and victims still didn't cure or resolve the stigma associated with the actions.

In the case of HGOC, right or wrong the church board, parish priest, chancellor and bishop are all party to some despicable actions.

While doubtful this will occur perhaps someone within the church hierarchy can answer the following:

Why did the 1st VP-Bilanan appear befor council in lieu of the then Board President?? (Public Record)

Why has the church board allowed and endorsed having legal counsel with a history of real estate litigation against him represent the church?? (Public Record)

Why would the parish priest stand before the congregation to announce
a woman's ex-communication?? (Public Record)

Keep in mind that none of the above response has included any reference to an individual. This is NOT about actions of an individual or "sect" as had been mentioned but of the actions of the Church Hierarchy or as the case may be LACK of ACTIONS !!

Awaiting a response !!

Anonymous said...

To September 25, 2008 7:48:00 AM

If you can't use the big words in proper context, it's best to just state it simply.
"What is truth?" you ask? I think you are probably not the sharpest tool in the shed.

HGOC doesn't have the right to sell the land that is being leased to them by the St Nicholas Brotherhood. The Brotherhood is a legal Not For Profit Corporation in the state of PA. Even in the earliest meetings, this was pointed out to the leadership team at HGOC.
Nancy Dempsey was made an example of what would happen if the good people who are trying to protect the sacred land entrusted to them by their ancestors, fail to submit to "Obedience" of the church.
The Truth has been listed here by many of the bloggers. Is your collar too tight that it is affecting your blood circulating to the brain.
In case you failed to notice...this is a very hot topic in P'ville.
Seems like others are seeing someone other than Mrs Dempsey having now rec'd enough rope to hang himself.....

Karen said...
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Karen said...

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